Add alternative logo (pride)

[rhendric]

If we're going to have easter eggs that promote subcultures, I'd want us to start here.

Suggestions for improvement are very welcome.

This is a derivative both of the existing Haskell logo (licensed under the BSD 3-Clause, AFAIK) and the Progress Pride flag (licensed for non-commercial use under Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0, with extra text waiving the requirement for attribution (archive.org snapshot)).

BSD 3-Clause is a permissive license, and per the license compatibility checker, it is acceptable to relicense a derivative of a BSD 3-Clause work under BY-NC-SA. It is unclear to me if the text that waives the requirement for attribution for the Progress Pride flag is considered part of the license, and thus subject to the ShareAlike clause of BY-NC-SA and required to be part of the licensing of derivative works, but I am happy to abide by it as if it were.

Therefore, I hereby offer this logo under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license, and similarly to the Progress Pride flag's terms of use linked above, I waive the requirement to credit me when using or creating derived works from this logo.

[rhendric]

Please let me know if there's anything else the committee needs from me for this to be considered.

[rhendric]

Bump!

[rhendric]

Gentle reminder for the committee that this still needs a review.

[rhendric]

I think it would be nice to have this up for Pride Month (June, in the US). Is that feasible?

[hasufell]

I'm a bit confused why this got no attention.

Does the haskell.org committee need more members to review PRs?

[rhendric]

Does the haskell.org committee need more members to review PRs?

They are usually quite responsive; just today, #337 and #338 have gotten review feedback within hours! I don't know what is happening here.

[aviaviavi]

Apologies for the delay. Image and code look fine to me, but on my current environment setup I'm not actually able to verify the JS functionality locally yet (trying to fix that now). It would be good if someone else can verify all works as expected before we merge.

[tomjaguarpaw]

For the record, adding an alternative logo will require a majority vote of the whole committee, just as keeping the original "uwu" logo did: #321 (comment)

[sshine]

I don't know how one prioritises one subculture over another when picking easter egg logos, but one subculture that often gets overlooked in the tech scene are native americans. To promote the adoption of functional programming in native communities, having an entire series on ethnic minorities might be worth considering.

[rhendric]

@sshine, that's lovely! My intent was always to get one of my PRs merged so that the tech infrastructure for more than one alt logo is in place, and then more broadly invite the community to build on top of that so that there aren't merge conflicts. Please submit yours when that is ready!

[Kleidukos]

@sshine We might want to leave this to the other Haskell Foundation.

[hasufell]

@sshine We might want to leave this to the other Haskell Foundation.

Why?

[GunpowderGuy]

I don't know how one prioritises one subculture over another when picking easter egg logos, but one subculture that often gets overlooked in the tech scene are native americans. To promote the adoption of functional programming in native communities, having an entire series on ethnic minorities might be worth considering.

There is also the fact the particular pride flag this logo is based on is controversial among queer people for several reasons. Personally i object to the fact it is copyrighted

[hasufell]

@GunpowderGuy thanks for the insight. Indeed it seems so: https://progress.gay/pages/terms-of-use

For any use that involves art-making that isn’t being sold, or any non-commercial use, there is a CC (BY-NC-SA) license on the design.

So this is BY-NC-SA 4.0 and as such @rhendric cannot license it under BSD 3-Clause.

[rhendric]

Yikes, thanks for bringing that to my attention, @GunpowderGuy and @hasufell.

I like the Progress flag in particular for this because of the geometric similarity with the Haskell bind-lambda logo, but this is a bummer. I'll have to do some research and get back to this thread when I have a bit more time.

[GunpowderGuy]

@rhendric I actually wasnt trying to point out a problem with licensing in your use case ( lol, i hadnt noticed the problem due to my adhd ). I tried to say i object to the progress flag for many reasons, including it being the property of someone as opossed to a symbol people can use without restrictions as the traditional rainbow flag can be

[TeofilC]

Is this licensing thing actually a blocker? My understanding is that you should just use the same license for your derived artwork to be safe, and attribute.

Presumably the sponsors logos on the site aren't BSD3

[sshine]

The HTML/CSS/JS of this commit seem great.

I'm not a big fan of the pride flag as a Haskell website logo, because it seems political.

It reminds me of websites that have BLM and Ukraine banners. Of course, those are great causes, like the celebration of gay rights. I wish for everyone to be treated fairly, and I acknowledge that awareness is necessary. But I find that it must be possible to ask to separate political matters without being called out for being a heretic. Alternatively, the logo becomes a platform for battling out values. Seems like a slippery slope that does not align with the core purpose of a website logo.

This argument does not seem to apply to the uwu logo. (Maybe I don't understand it fully.)

[rebeccaskinner]

@sshine

I don't know how one prioritises one subculture over another when picking easter egg logos, but one subculture that often gets overlooked in the tech scene are native americans. To promote the adoption of functional programming in native communities, having an entire series on ethnic minorities might be worth considering.

Thank you for raising the broader idea of outreach.

Regardless of how we decide to handle alternate logos, encouraging greater participation in Haskell and functional programming is definitely a valuable goal, and I'd encourage anyone interested in that to get involved.

That said, I want to call attention to two important considerations:

1. If you're interested in encouraging participation from Native and Indigenous peoples, I'd suggest starting by reaching out to Native and Indigenous members of the Haskell community, as well as existing organizations and communities focused on Native and Indigenous people in tech more broadly. It's important that any outreach be collaborative and community-led, with the Haskell community supporting their goals rather than speaking for them. We want Haskell to be a welcoming and respectful space, and that means making sure any efforts to broaden participation are guided by and responsive to the people we're aiming to include.

2. It's also important to recognize that supporting one initiative doesn't mean disregarding others. No group can address every need equally at once. Prioritizing some efforts based on available energy or opportunity is natural, and it doesn’t diminish the importance of broader outreach.

[hasufell]

I'm not a big fan of the pride flag as a Haskell website logo, because it seems political.

Pride members are a diverse group that can be found in pretty much the whole political spectrum.

There's a certain part of it in US culture that is very vocal and hyper political, but that doesn't represent the whole of it.

If anything, it's a stance for basic human rights... which seems hardly controversial and aligns with the inclusion values of the Guidelines For Respectful Communication:

We welcome into the Haskell community people of all backgrounds, identities, and beliefs, provided only that they in turn behave in the respectful way articulated in these guidelines.

[GunpowderGuy]

I'm not a big fan of the pride flag as a Haskell website logo, because it seems political.

Pride members are a diverse group that can be found in pretty much the whole political spectrum.

There's a certain part of it in US culture that is very vocal and hyper political, but that doesn't represent the whole of it.

If anything, it's a stance for basic human rights... which seems hardly controversial and aligns with the inclusion values of the Guidelines For Respectful Communication:

We welcome into the Haskell community people of all backgrounds, identities, and beliefs, provided only that they in turn behave in the respectful way articulated in these guidelines.

The "progress" flag meanwhile is controversial. As you said queer people are diverse and that includes their opinion on that newer pride flag. I provided one of the reasons why i dont like it, i dont know if this is place to discuss it further

[rhendric]

Okay, back on this. I believe I have a sufficient understanding of the licensing situation that I can say that issue is resolved, provided the committee is willing to include a BY-NC-SA–licensed work in the website. I've updated the main PR description appropriately, and added an acknowledgement to Daniel Quasar in the code.

[hasufell]

@rhendric I have no deep understanding of the social controversy surrounding the logo, but wouldn't it make sense to pick one that is uncontroversial? At least given that it will be as prominent as here.

[rhendric]

@hasufell, I don't believe there is an uncontroversial option, given that there are comments here objecting to the basic concept of symbolic queer representation.

Just as I don't feel particularly inclined to engage those commenters, I also don't feel particularly inclined to engage with objections to symbolic transgender and POC representation within this symbolic gesture. I'm not aware of an equivalently widely-recognized, equivalently explicitly-inclusive, alternative to the Progress Pride flag, so that's what I'm proposing provided we can make it work.

I am aware that the Baker rainbow flag can be interpreted as already inclusive of transgender people and people of color, and that some people claim that this implicit representation is sufficient. I disagree with this claim, but ultimately my opinion is only relevant as the author of this particular PR. I don't wish to have a debate about this or to attempt to influence the committee's principles on such things, as they are the ultimate wielders of power here, and as soon as they offer any guidance whatsoever I will be happy to abide by it.

[tomjaguarpaw]

Hello @rhendric, thank you for your logo submissions. The Haskell.org committee has been internally discussing the issue of alternative logos for some time and this is our response on the matter, posted here since it has the most active discussion of the current logo submissions:

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The Haskell logo is an important part of our brand, and it's something we want to manage carefully. The committee may include alternate or updated logos from time to time for specific purposes, for example as part of a larger marketing or branding campaign.

While we appreciate creative submissions, PRs to add alternate logos are unlikely to be accepted unless they are tied to a specific active Haskell-related event, branding campaign, or address specific technical concerns, such as providing alternate sizes to support different screen resolutions, without altering the core concept of the logo.

We appreciate the community’s creativity and enthusiasm for Haskell, and encourage you to share your personal variations informally or within the community.

We will not be considering new logo submissions at this time.

[rebeccaskinner]

Closing this PR since, as Tom mentioned, we're not going to be considering new submissions at this time.