PEP 360 table looks broken

[JelleZijlstra]

I can't tell what's wrong in the ReST code. The middle row looks the same as the others.

[CAM-Gerlach]

I can't tell either, even looking at invisible characters and playing around with the source a bit. Seems to be fixed in the new build system, though, so we can just chalk it up as yet another bug of the old one, I guess... @AA-Turner might be a good idea to add it to the PEP and mention it on the thread so @warsaw sees.

On another note, the related PEP 291 has a random empty table in the middle of the document, though in this case its present in the source (for no explicable reason).

[gvanrossum]

What should we do about deceased authors? Fredrik Lundh is not maintaining anything any more.

[AA-Turner]

I can't tell what's wrong in the ReST

It's not a table, it is a definition list. The styling somewhere seems to be broken in DLs. I could look into fixing it, but it may not be worth it, depending when/if/how quickly we move to the new rendering system?

peps/pep-0360.txt

Lines 62 to 67 in 8306a79

	:Web site:
	http://effbot.org/zone/element-index.htm
	:Standard library name:
	xml.etree
	:Contact person:
	Fredrik Lundh

What should we do about deceased authors? Fredrik Lundh is not maintaining anything any more.

Lundh isn't mentioned as an author of any PEP (based on a quick look at the index). The text here also notes that he passed maintainership to the core developers, so I might suggest in this case (PEP 360) we leave the text intact.

edit: I realised you might've been talking about 291, Guido -- I would also keep the text the same, as the PEP is obsolete ("PEP 291 -- Backward Compatibility for the Python 2 Standard Library").

A

[AA-Turner]

PEP 291 has a random empty table in the middle of the document, though in this case its present in the source (for no explicable reason).

At one point it did:

peps/pep-0291.txt

Lines 76 to 78 in 54f47ce

	Tool Maintainer(s) Python Version
	---- ------------- --------------
	scripts/freeze/modulefinder Thomas Heller 1.5.2

It was removed in 4e06fbd, but the table was kept. I don't think it hurts to keep it.

A

[CAM-Gerlach]

It's not a table, it is a definition list. The styling somewhere seems to be broken in DLs. I could look into fixing it, but it may not be worth it, depending when/if/how quickly we move to the new rendering system?

Yeah, I realized looking at the syntax it wasn't a table, but it is rendered via the legacy build system as one (while the new one handles it more conventionally).

What should we do about deceased authors? Fredrik Lundh is not maintaining anything any more.

Looks like Fredrik (as "effbot") is mentioned in the Experts Index in the devguide, which is where I found those two PEPs linked at the top, and is also mentioned in both PEPs.

Since both are now obsolete and only of historical interest (since Python 2 is gone and those modules have been maintained in the stdlib for a decade or more), to avoid any continuing confusion, could we add a note admonition to the top of each noting such, and remove the line

See also PEP 291 and PEP 360 for information about certain modules with special rules.

in the devguide, since the PEPs are no longer relevant for any developed version of Python?

[gvanrossum]

What should we do about deceased authors? Fredrik Lundh is not maintaining anything any more.

Lundh isn't mentioned as an author of any PEP (based on a quick look at the index). The text here also notes that he passed maintainership to the core developers, so I might suggest in this case (PEP 360) we leave the text intact.

I didn't mean PEP authors. I meant that Fredrik appeared to be listed as contact for ElementTree (of which he was the author), which seems indelicate. Maybe we could change the contact person to "None" and rephrase the note a bit? Maybe the passive voice would be appropriate, e.g. Maintenance of ElementTree has been taken over by the core Python development team [#element-tree]_.

edit: I realised you might've been talking about 291, Guido -- I would also keep the text the same, as the PEP is obsolete ("PEP 291 -- Backward Compatibility for the Python 2 Standard Library").

I wasn't, and that PEP looks so out of date that we should just leave it alone.

[AA-Turner]

I didn't mean PEP authors. I meant that Fredrik appeared to be listed as contact for ElementTree (of which he was the author), which seems indelicate.

Ahh, I understand sorry -- yes perhaps it would be better to rephrase. I'll prepare a PR along the lines of your suggestion.

A

[CAM-Gerlach]

FYI, I opened a PR over on the devguide to remove the obsolete, potentially confusing line as well as Fredrik's name from the modules he maintained.

[gvanrossum]

At the same time we don't want to erase Fredrik's memory! I'm not sure what's the right way -- none of our conventions had this kind of thing in mind. :-(

[JelleZijlstra]

Perhaps we should just leave the PEP text alone as a historical document.

[CAM-Gerlach]

At the same time we don't want to erase Fredrik's memory! I'm not sure
what's the right way -- none of our conventions had this kind of thing in
mind. :-(

Very true...I'd think we'd still want to credit him for the great module he created and maintained, at least in PEP 360 which is more of historical interest. I'd suggest keeping it as it is, since it already says maintainership was transferred to the Python dev team, so I don't think we need to erase his name from the PEP. Instead. we can just remove the link from the dev guide (and his name there), so as to not confuse any current developers that the information there is still relevant to whom to contact for future development, while preserving the PEP as a historical document. If needed, we could add a note at the top stating that the PEP is no longer relevant/in force.

[gvanrossum]

Perhaps we should just leave the PEP text alone as a historical document.

That also seems fine. All of PEP 360 seems to be historical (though I think it still reflects reality for libexpat).

[CAM-Gerlach]

@AA-Turner Would you like to do it in #2276 ?

[AA-Turner]

@CAM-Gerlach 'it' being adding a note to 360 pointing to the devguide?

Will do in the morning (it is 1:30 AM here!)

A

[CAM-Gerlach]

Yeah, mentioning it is a historical document and pointing to the experts list in the devguide for the up to date maintainers for each module.