Kneading too much

[vigna]

the-sourdough-framework/book/wheat-sourdough/wheat-sourdough.tex

Line 660 in 4510616

is almost impossible though. Even after kneading for 30~minutes on medium

I've read this comment in the book, but my experience is that is true only with completely refined flour and a starter also containing refined flour. Every mix I tried with whole-wheat flour collapsed to glue after a few minutes of kneading in the mixer. Even a bread-specific, high-gluten 350W flour with a whole wheat starter did the same. I've read that in general the presence of bran makes long kneading process impossible, and I can confirm that.

[hendricius]

Interesting. I have issues with overoxidizing some flour after kneading too long. The bread got a really pale look in the end. Maybe we can add a comment that a bit more research and experimentation is needed?

[vigna]

But, did you try overkneading with whole wheat flour? Or it is just me? I might be doing something else wrong.

[hendricius]

With whole wheat flour it never happened to me. Did you grind it freshly? I have only been using store bought whole wheat flour.

[vigna]

Ok, then there's something else I'm doing really wrong. Like, speed too high or something like that. The flour is standard store-bought flour...

[hendricius]

@vigna what's the whole wheat flour that you are using?

[vigna]

Type 2 (full bran) flower from Grandi Molini. But that's just 50g in the starter. 500g is refined flour W350 sold for long fermentations. I'm using the hook from Kenwood MasterChef at speed 1, which is what they suggest. Maybe I should try minimum speed. It's really a mistery to me.

[tbpassin]

I usually sift out the bran from whole grain flours. If I really want the bran I make it into a soaker and add it back later. It's very helpful to develop the basic gluten structure before adding ingredients that can work against it.

[hendricius]

@tbpassin thanks for the comment. So I made really great whole wheat bread with the full bran in the flour.

Made this with whole wheat flour that I bought from a mill.

[tbpassin]

I didn't mean it can't be done, only that in case of difficulty sifting out the bran can ne helpful. That's a nice looking loaf.