Question about secondary stats

[Canopy-1]

Hi
I was trying to optimize my gear using Devx version 1.5.3. On the GOG forums I found the following post:
https://www.gog.com/forum/diablo/can_anybody_enlight_me_on_these_secondary_statscaps
Which, between other things states:

"AC: I'm not sure if the tohit overflow bug is fixed in DevX, but if it is, you need 20 points more (=305).
Notice that AC and Tohit as they are displayed in the character panel in DevX are a bit misleading because they already include clvl and bonuses (unlike vanilla). The Tohit is clvl + bonus points higher and the AC is 2*clvl points higher."

Does it mean that, e.g., a lvl 50 character in multiplayer Diablo needs 405 AC displayed in the character panel of DevX to reach the armour cap, or else?

Sorry, if this was already clarified before: I have serached the discussions here but i got no matching results.
In case, can you point me to the most relevant posts?
TIA

[kphoenix137]

https://github.com/kphoenix137/JGX/blob/main/5-Monsters/5.1.md

This hasn't been updated yet for DevilutionX (at this very moment), but you can effectively consider Monster CTH to work like it says, but with clvl * 2 taken out of the equation, because that clvl * 2 was moved into what you see on the character panel. So rather:

Attack Type	Formula
To Hit with melee attack:	30 + base + (2 × mlvl)
To Hit with arrow attack:	30 + base + (2 × mlvl) - (2 × distance)

Then you can take the resulting CTH from the relevant formula and deduct player character screen AC to get a final monster CTH.

Keep in mind it still follows the minimum CTH rules:

Attack Type	Minimum Chance To Hit
Melee:	15%
Arrow:	10%
Magic:	10%
On dungeon level 14:	20%
On dungeon level 15:	25%
On dungeon level 16:	30%

So I'm assuming you're trying to get an AC amount that is the best possible useful AC amount?

Diablo (The Dark Lord) has a base CTH of 220%, base mlvl of 30 in Diablo /mlvl 45 in Hellfire.

Difficulty	Monster Level
Nightmare	Normal + 15
Hell	Normal + 30

Difficulty	To Hit
Nightmare:	normal + 85
Hell:	normal + 120

Factoring these into the equation for Diablo in Hell difficulty:
30 + (220_CTH + 120) + (2 * (30_mlvl+30)) = 490_CTH

or Hellfire:
30 + (220_CTH + 120) + (2 * (45_mlvl+30)) = 505_CTH

Diablo: 490% CTH - 460 AC = 30% final CTH
Hellfire: 505% CTH - 475 AC = 30% final CTH

This means the maximum useful AC you can have is 460 AC (Diablo)/475 AC (Hellfire) as displayed on the character panel. No further calculations needed.

Note: It's a lot harder to figure this out in vanilla, as you need a calculator. A level 50 character in vanilla Diablo would need 360 AC (in character panel) against Diablo, but a level 25 character would need 410 AC (in character panel) against Diablo.

[Canopy-1]

So I'm assuming you're trying to get an AC amount that is the best possible useful AC amount?

OFC I amy trying to optimize/pondering my stats with the gear I have w/o wasting unnecessary points in TH and especially AC.

Thnx all for the insightful information.
So, my calculations and spreasheets based on clvl could possibly apply to the original Diablo while in DevX they are useless. I just have to try to reach my AC based on a flat number, determined by monsters (I am not talking about PvP).

One last question: thank you for the formulas, but if I undestand well, the player AC cap is based on the monster lvl, not the monster capacity to hit. So in dlvl 16 the hardest monsters - Blood Knights - mlvl 30, same as Diablo would need the same AC to resist (460) altough they have less to hit (250 vs. 340 in multiplayer according to JG)?
Same applies to equivalent normal monsters and uniques in Hellfire (475 AC)?

Sorry if my questions could seem naive, but English is not my native language and BTW I think that your answers could benefit also other users.

Finally, thanks to all DevX developers and contributors for the great job.

[StephenCWills]

... if I undestand well, the player AC cap is based on the monster lvl, not the monster capacity to hit.

That is not correct. Here are some examples to help illustrate how this works.

• Diablo on dlvl 16 has CTH = 30 + 340 + 60*2 - PlayerAC = 490 - PlayerAC. Minimum CTH is 30, so 30 = 490 - PlayerAC -> PlayerAC = 490 - 30 = 460
• Blood Knight on dlvl 16 has CTH = 30 + 250 + 60*2 - PlayerAC = 400 - PlayerAC. Skipping some steps: PlayerAC = 400 - 30 = 370
• Blood Knight on dlvl 13 has the same CTH = 400 - PlayerAC. However, minimum CTH is 15 so PlayerAC = 400 - 15 = 385

As you can see, it is a combination of the base CTH, mlvl, and dlvl that is used to compute the maximum effective AC in any given encounter.

[Canopy-1]

It's a bit more complicated then I thought :). Anyway, since I have the next monday free, I think I can figure completelly out by myself why you need more AC to counter a Blood Knight on dlvl 13 then on dlvl 16 (my bad, I had to read more on Jarulf's Guide).
In the meantime, before I humbly mark a post as an answer, thnx all again for your insights on DevX and Diablo in general and feel free to post more about the subject.

[kphoenix137]

So I'm assuming you're trying to get an AC amount that is the best possible useful AC amount?

OFC I amy trying to optimize/pondering my stats with the gear I have w/o wasting unnecessary points in TH and especially AC.

Thnx all for the insightful information. So, my calculations and spreasheets based on clvl could possibly apply to the original Diablo while in DevX they are useless. I just have to try to reach my AC based on a flat number, determined by monsters (I am not talking about PvP).

One last question: thank you for the formulas, but if I undestand well, the player AC cap is based on the monster lvl, not the monster capacity to hit. So in dlvl 16 the hardest monsters - Blood Knights - mlvl 30, same as Diablo would need the same AC to resist (460) altough they have less to hit (250 vs. 340 in multiplayer according to JG)? Same applies to equivalent normal monsters and uniques in Hellfire (475 AC)?

Sorry if my questions could seem naive, but English is not my native language and BTW I think that your answers could benefit also other users.

Finally, thanks to all DevX developers and contributors for the great job.

No.

Formula:
30 + base + (2 * mlvl)

Applied formula:
30 + (Normal difficulty Chance To Hit + Monster Chance To Hit Difficulty Modifier) + (2 * (Normal Difficulty Monster Level + Monster Level Difficulty Modifier))

The Dark Lord has the highest Chance To Hit in the game in both Diablo and Hellfire, therefore we calculate the formula using The Dark Lord's data:
Diablo: 30 + (220 + 120) + (2 * (30 + 30)) = 490
Hellfire: 30 + (220 + 120) + (2 * (45 + 30)) = 505

490 is the highest Chance To Hit for any monster in Diablo.
505 is the highest Chance To Hit for any monster in Hellfire.

To figure out the needed amount of Armor Class needed:
Monster Chance To Hit - Dungeon Level Minimum Chance To Hit

Applied Formula:
Diablo: 490 - 30 = 460
Hellfire: 505 - 30 = 475

It is impossible to reach this amount of Armor Class using the Warrior or Sorcerer in Diablo.

Maximum Possible Armor Class (Diablo) on Level 50 Characters in DevilutionX:
Warrior: 451
Rogue: 487
Sorcerer: 452

Maximum Possible Armor Class (Diablo) on Level 30 Characters in DevilutionX:
Warrior: 411
Rogue: 447
Sorcerer: 412

Maximum Possible Armor Class (Diablo) on Level 20 Characters in DevilutionX:
Warrior: 391
Rogue: 427
Sorcerer: 392

In Hellfire, with certain combinations of Hellfire exclusive items, along with access to Godly Full Plate Mail, it's much more likely that you could achieve the desired level of Armor Class. However, it is important to note that both in Diablo and Hellfire, reaching this level of Armor Class means you will severely weaken your character in other aspects, since all of your items are devoted to increasing your Armor Class and Dexterity. This means you will have 0% All Resistances, no secondary item effects, and severely low mana.

[StephenCWills]

I think I can figure completelly out by myself why you need more AC to counter a Blood Knight on dlvl 13 then on dlvl 16

Just make sure you're asking yourself the right question. You don't need more to counter the Blood Knights on dlvl 13, you only need more to reach maximum effective AC.

In other words, you can achieve 30% CTH on dlvl 13 with 370 AC, same as dlvl 16. However, you cannot achieve 15% CTH on dlvl 16 no matter what you do, but you can on dlvl 13.

[StephenCWills]

Does it mean that, e.g., a lvl 50 character in multiplayer Diablo needs 405 AC displayed in the character panel of DevX to reach the armour cap, or else?

It does sound like that's what he meant, but it's a bit hard to say since the answer is wrong. You need 460 to reach the AC cap against Hell-difficulty Diablo in DevilutionX.

EDIT: Also, since 2*clvl is factored into the char panel, you don't need to factor it in yourself. You need 460 AC regardless of clvl to reach the cap.

[AJenbo]

Also go update to 1.5.4